Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.05] [MagicNuts]

4.70 star(s) 474 Votes
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moskyx

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,389
14,752
DemiMaximoff said:
Oh, so all the complexity comes from the one thing I forgot to mention? Well, you did not move the goalpost far enough. Modular character portraits are very common and loads of games have it. Stop acting like a Starfield fan, glazing the most common and expected elements like it is the second coming of Christ
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I first mentioned the feature that gives complexity to this game's coding, then you came up with several examples of other games with other features. Since you never addressed the only specific feature I mentioned (funny you precisely forgot that one), I talked about it again, expanding on why it takes time to notice and fix those bugs. How's that moving the goalposts? The goalposts were always at the same spot but you missed them the first time. Now you say there are loads of games with this feature too, which doesn't make this game less complex or bug-proned, or a "simply RenPy game btw", which are the claims I was replying to. It may be not enough complex for you and even I said these devs have always been slow, but there's still a valid reason that can explain the bug count and its progress.

Btw, most of the work done these last months is still edit work, not bugfixing. There's an open post yesterday about it on their Patreon, with a WIP video. Bug-fixing is relatively faster once they are fully focused on it, and it has always been like this.
 
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Fantaldebert

Newbie
May 30, 2018
46
117
moskyx said:
Did I say the bugs came from the sandbox gameplay? I said what I said, and where most of the bugs originate from. I don't know if those games have also layered images with 3 or 4 (or even 8) changing elements per dialog line that can cause a non-fatal bug - therefore way harder to find or notice because RenPy would not tell you there's a bug until you effectively replay that part (and sometimes it won't even throw you an error at all, because you may have mistakenly used a non-fitting but still valid facial expression and you won't notice there's something wrong in your code unless you are thoroughly looking at it with fresh eyes and not mechanically skipping it because you already know it almost by heart after so many months working on it). In those coding expressions for characters' animated faces and gestures is where the complexity of this game stands out. So the way those "made in RenPy btw" comments are being expressed here, as if the game was an average "show pic1, some dialogue, show pic2" well, I simply can't find them justified at all. I'd really encourage you to take an actual look at the code, and think if you still find it that simple as these people make it sound.

Now, it's blatantly obvious there are faster devs out there, as well as more complex games in terms of gameplay (btw, some of them rely on modules made by other guys on the lemmasoft forum or whatever, which simplifies the work needed to implement those apparently complex mechanisms and minigames, but let's keep that out of this). But in the end it all comes down to the very same concept we've been discussing for ages: devs are publicly releasing a daily progress chart that allow us check that dev pace and act accordingly, and they are informing of any significant setback they suffer. Also, the game is being worked on in the same way since the start: new tasks are being added and completed every day, and progress is steady enough to make our own predictions. You can think they are slow and I won't argue that, but other insinuations beyond that are quite unfair.
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I didn't know that. It's intersting.
As a coder, it makes me cringe in inefficiency.

Also, I think you spent more time typing this yesterday than the dev's spent on the game the same day.

Thank you
 
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moskyx

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
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This is 3 lines of text in a complex scene in WaL:

Python: 
    show abusmall ewide sangry
    show pov enarrow hfneu2 hbneu2 msmile bangry scrazyhair
    show rose basemessy xwings xhornsnude enarrow bangryn msmile at s_left:
        xalign -0.5 alpha 1
    $ renpy.music.set_volume(0.8, channel='sfx4')
    play sfx4 "audio/magicdemon2.ogg" fadein 0.5
    abu "WHHHHHAAAAAAATTTTTTT?!" with vpunch
    show rose eneu bupn
    show pov hfreach eclosed bup at m_left with moveinleft:
        xalign 0.3 xzoom -1.0
    show pov hfneu2 eneudown
    show abusmall at t_right with moveoutleft:
        xalign 1.5 xzoom -1.0
    show pov hfneu1 hbneu1 bsad mneu
    show abusmall at t_right with quickdissolve:
        xzoom 1.0 xalign 1.5
    show rose bsadn
    show abusmall eangry sangry
    with quickdissolve
    pov "Ah, Rose, I was worried you wouldn't come."
    show rose ewide bupn mneu
    show pov ewideb bup mcry
    show abusmall eangry
    abu "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!" with vpunch
And that's basically the same for every piece of dialog. That's what they call 'posing'. This coding structure you see above needs to be done for every single dialog line in the game (maybe on a different scale, but still), and then you need to replay the scene taking extra care to detect if every single one of those short orders works as intended and make actual sense. Of course, if you edit the dialog lines, all those orders need to be adjusted too, and then checked once again.

Creating a minigame or a turn-based combat system surely takes longer than 'posing' this scene, but it's usually a one-time thing and then all you'd need to do is add a 'call screen' line and maybe adjust the variables involved before that 'call' statement. There, a bug can only exist within the minigame's core, and it would be easily detected as it would crash the game altogether or make the minigame not produce the expected result (it may take several days to fix, sure, but again it would be a one-time thing and you'll then have your minigame's code all fine and dandy for every time you'd want to use it in-game again). Taking care of different variables and paths is complex too, but that's just a matter of carefully noting down every possible combination and not messing with the variables' names; again, bugs would be easily detected and way easier to fix than those in minigames. Having a myriad of those variables and paths is probably similar to what posing means for WaL in terms of complexity, except you only check those variables every once in a while, after a significant interaction, while posing is needed for every single dialog line.
 
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DegenDesu

DegenDesu

Newbie
Sep 13, 2019
42
56
real-life baby making SEEEEEGGSS for h-scene ideas let's gooooo UUUOOOOGGHH
Takeshi SEEEEGGGSS UOOOOGGHH (4).png

that seems to be two h-game devs now that I've seen who does that, I wonder if there is more :KEK:
 
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Karl Speidel

Karl Speidel

Active Member
Sep 20, 2021
841
805
Knight said:
First, you are assuming the next update will release this year, that's a bold claim.
Second, there is a life cycle to scams, many of us who have been around these types of forums know it well. Once a game starts getting 1+ year long updates its not long before it's abandoned in all but name (gotta keep those shekels flowing). If we even got a Holly update it will likely be longer than 2 years if happens at all; late 2027 to 28 would be my earliest guess.
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Its funny how you specified shekels
 
Karl Speidel

Karl Speidel

Active Member
Sep 20, 2021
841
805
hasslethehoff said:
truly being a weg dev is the most dangerous job in existence.
Edit: On the subject of hip surgery, one of my aunts 50+ recently fell and shattered her hip, 1 week in the hospital, operated on, 1 week recovery and then 1 month of therapy, if an adult woman can recover in 2 months the update should already be out.
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100% On this.
 
Karl Speidel

Karl Speidel

Active Member
Sep 20, 2021
841
805
Bohler said:
It's a green update, you know those climate idiots, they wanted everything green, so now it takes forever. Just like those rising sea levels...
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If there is somekind of reference,I dont get it. Not up to date on the green madness,unless your talking about Orks and Dakka.
 
Karl Speidel

Karl Speidel

Active Member
Sep 20, 2021
841
805
TheRealJohnCena69 said:
so im not the only one... for the past few weeks ive had my comments and reviews deleted, without any notification from admins or mods. Wtf? Talk about power-abuse. They are probably discord mods as well. Smh
(This comment will def be deleted as well)
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Well discord servers tend to be echo chambers where the devs feed their narcissism or escape from rightful criticism,I wouldn't be making hopes you can convince them of anything.
 
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4.70 star(s) 474 Votes